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Ma, they aren't listening to the phone anymore... and I'm scared...

It looks like some people have indeed partaken of the confinement loaf and actually believe that spying on the citizenry in a sort of random, unconstrained manner is a good thing. Or am I to make something else of comments like "Thanks to the NYT we are a lot less safe".

Yeah, buddy I'd get that tingly, safe-in-momma's-arms feeling just thinking that my phone could be tapped, too.

Sheesh.

Heh I would say that I do not understand their logic, but there is, in reality, a total lack of logic to their arguement.

You just gotta say, FU to any and all the hackers, stackers, slow wits and pro's. They've never been able to rise above being somebody's dog.

Glyn . . . in Canada they have been listening to you for decades.

The NYT thing . . . they exposed, for terrorists, a legal, govt program, going on since the Carter years, listening to calls from places like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and other foreign locations outside the US, some of the numbers acquired from known terrorists.
The NYT should be tried for treason . . . had they done this during the WWII they would have been . . .

Let's see if I have this straight.
(1)The US has laws which allow the govt to wiretap, subject to obtaining judicial approval.
(2)The govt wiretaps essentially everyone, ignoring the requirement to obtain approval.
(3)The NYT learns about (2), and realizes the discrepancy between (1) and (2). That is technically known as a dilemma.

So the NYT is faced with a fact vs a hypothetical: (fact) there is a gross violation of citizens rights by the US govt
(hyp) the govt may discover evidence of a terrorist plot that they would not have discovered otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that the NYT wants the govt to prevent further terrorist acts. I'm also pretty sure that (2) is a story worthy of publication, if it doesn't break the law to report it. Damn, another dilemma. The govt doesn't think it has done anything wrong, but the NYT does. Is the country at war? It sure feels like it, but the war isn't recognized as such by the constitution. Let's ask the courts to clarify things! They've just done so: the govt was in the wrong, the NYT was entitled to go public with the story.

PS ex-ndip is right, I believe. We're all being listened to by the Cdn govt.

I have heard that the Canadian laws allow for far more civilian surveillance than in the US. Where does one look to find these things out?

The CSE, the Canadian Security Establishment, is the Federal agency whose mandate it is to monitor electronic communications. I'm not sure to what extent they can legally do so, but that'd be where I'd start looking.

911 was an inside job

by now most people have seen Loose Change, and for those of you who are still skeptics, here's a new 911 documentary called 911 mysteries (it's really good)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=-6708190071483512003

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